5 answers
Arihant
Student
Japan
7
Questions
Asked
1985 views
Finance Vs Engineering?
All I want to do is make money. I know it sounds shallow but what would you recommend is a more lucrative field. I'm going towards finance but I think engineering makes more money. Also what type of engineering would make the most money?
4 answers
Dr H
Dr. H's Research
1360
Answers
Australia
Updated
Dr’s Answer
Hey Arihant, alright so If purely making money is the goal, then yeah, engineering and finance are both solid bets—but the way you make that money (and how soon you see it) is totally different.
Engineering can be a cash cow if you go into the right fields. AI/machine learning, petroleum, software, and electrical engineering can all pull in six figures early on, sometimes straight out of college. But—and this is a big but—engineering is skill-based. Your paycheck is tied directly to how good you are at solving complex problems. You gotta be into tech, math, and constant learning because industries shift, and high salaries follow those shifts. If you’re not excited by that, engineering might start feeling like a grind fast.
Finance, on the other hand, has a ridiculously high earning ceiling—higher than most engineers will ever see. Investment banking, private equity, and hedge funds can turn people into millionaires. But getting there? Different beast. It’s not about having a degree and getting a job—it’s about building connections, understanding markets, and surviving brutal work hours. Starting pay can be solid, but the real money comes later, once you’ve climbed the ranks. If you’re strategic, competitive, and willing to hustle, finance can be a goldmine.
Now, which one makes more money? If we’re talking pure potential, finance wins. The top 1% of finance professionals make insane money—far beyond most engineers. But if we’re talking consistent high pay, engineering is safer, especially if you specialize in a high-demand field. You can hit six figures quickly, and the demand for skilled engineers isn’t going away.
So the real question isn’t just which makes more—it’s what kind of grind you want. Want a steady, skill-based path with strong paychecks? Engineering. Want a high-risk, high-reward game where networking and market knowledge can make you filthy rich? Finance.
These engineering fields are where the money’s is mostly at:
Petroleum Engineering – Drilling into that oil money (literally). Insanely high salaries, especially for those willing to work in remote or risky locations. Think six figures straight out of college and even higher with experience. Downside? The industry’s tied to oil prices, so it can be unstable.
Machine Learning/AI Engineering – Tech’s golden child. AI and automation are taking over, and companies are throwing money at engineers who can build smart systems. Top-tier AI engineers at big companies or startups can easily make $200K+.
Software Engineering (especially Big Tech & Quant Finance) – Not all software engineers are rolling in cash, but those at Google, Meta, or high-frequency trading firms? Yeah, they’re stacking serious money. Specializing in cloud computing, security, or blockchain can boost earnings even more.
Electrical Engineering (Semiconductors, Hardware, RF, etc.) – With AI and chip shortages, electrical engineers working on cutting-edge tech (like designing chips for NVIDIA or Apple) can make bank. The right niche = $$$.
Aerospace Engineering – Designing spacecraft, fighter jets, and next-gen drones? Sounds cool and pays well, especially if you’re working with defense contractors or private space companies like SpaceX.
Biomedical Engineering (if you specialize in the right areas) – Regular biomed salaries aren’t crazy high, but if you go into biotech, medical devices, or pharmaceuticals (especially designing surgical robots or cutting-edge implants), you can hit that high-income bracket.
Nuclear Engineering – Less common, but nuclear power plants, defense, and fusion energy research pay really well. Not as many job openings, though.
Basically, the real money isn’t just in the field—it’s in specialization. If you pick a hot, growing industry (AI, cloud computing, biotech, semiconductors, etc.), the money follows.
Hope this helps, all the best Arihant! 😉If you got more questions just ask buddy! 🤗
Engineering can be a cash cow if you go into the right fields. AI/machine learning, petroleum, software, and electrical engineering can all pull in six figures early on, sometimes straight out of college. But—and this is a big but—engineering is skill-based. Your paycheck is tied directly to how good you are at solving complex problems. You gotta be into tech, math, and constant learning because industries shift, and high salaries follow those shifts. If you’re not excited by that, engineering might start feeling like a grind fast.
Finance, on the other hand, has a ridiculously high earning ceiling—higher than most engineers will ever see. Investment banking, private equity, and hedge funds can turn people into millionaires. But getting there? Different beast. It’s not about having a degree and getting a job—it’s about building connections, understanding markets, and surviving brutal work hours. Starting pay can be solid, but the real money comes later, once you’ve climbed the ranks. If you’re strategic, competitive, and willing to hustle, finance can be a goldmine.
Now, which one makes more money? If we’re talking pure potential, finance wins. The top 1% of finance professionals make insane money—far beyond most engineers. But if we’re talking consistent high pay, engineering is safer, especially if you specialize in a high-demand field. You can hit six figures quickly, and the demand for skilled engineers isn’t going away.
So the real question isn’t just which makes more—it’s what kind of grind you want. Want a steady, skill-based path with strong paychecks? Engineering. Want a high-risk, high-reward game where networking and market knowledge can make you filthy rich? Finance.
These engineering fields are where the money’s is mostly at:
Petroleum Engineering – Drilling into that oil money (literally). Insanely high salaries, especially for those willing to work in remote or risky locations. Think six figures straight out of college and even higher with experience. Downside? The industry’s tied to oil prices, so it can be unstable.
Machine Learning/AI Engineering – Tech’s golden child. AI and automation are taking over, and companies are throwing money at engineers who can build smart systems. Top-tier AI engineers at big companies or startups can easily make $200K+.
Software Engineering (especially Big Tech & Quant Finance) – Not all software engineers are rolling in cash, but those at Google, Meta, or high-frequency trading firms? Yeah, they’re stacking serious money. Specializing in cloud computing, security, or blockchain can boost earnings even more.
Electrical Engineering (Semiconductors, Hardware, RF, etc.) – With AI and chip shortages, electrical engineers working on cutting-edge tech (like designing chips for NVIDIA or Apple) can make bank. The right niche = $$$.
Aerospace Engineering – Designing spacecraft, fighter jets, and next-gen drones? Sounds cool and pays well, especially if you’re working with defense contractors or private space companies like SpaceX.
Biomedical Engineering (if you specialize in the right areas) – Regular biomed salaries aren’t crazy high, but if you go into biotech, medical devices, or pharmaceuticals (especially designing surgical robots or cutting-edge implants), you can hit that high-income bracket.
Nuclear Engineering – Less common, but nuclear power plants, defense, and fusion energy research pay really well. Not as many job openings, though.
Basically, the real money isn’t just in the field—it’s in specialization. If you pick a hot, growing industry (AI, cloud computing, biotech, semiconductors, etc.), the money follows.
Hope this helps, all the best Arihant! 😉If you got more questions just ask buddy! 🤗
How would you say I communicate with others in the field?
Arihant
Hey Arihant, love that you're thinking about this 🤔! Communicating in your field isn’t just about talking—it’s about actually making connections that matter. And the best part? It’s way easier when you know how to navigate it right.
First off, staying informed is a game-changer. The more you know, the more confidently you can contribute to conversations. But it’s not just about knowing facts—it’s about having opinions on them. If you can talk about industry trends, market shifts, or new tech in a way that sparks discussion, people will naturally want to engage with you.
Dr H
And speaking of conversations, the way you ask questions makes a huge difference. Instead of just saying, “Is AI important in finance?” try, “How do you see AI changing the way we invest over the next five years?” That kind of question doesn’t just get an answer—it gets a conversation going.
Now, networking—it’s not about collecting business cards or adding random people on LinkedIn. It’s about actually building relationships. A quick “Hey, I really liked your take on [topic], what do you think about [related question]?” goes a long way. People remember real, engaging chats, not just surface-level introductions.
Dr H
Also, don’t underestimate the power of just being a great listener. So many people are just waiting for their turn to talk, but if you actually pay attention, respond thoughtfully, and add value, you stand out without even trying.
Confidence is key too, but it’s got to come with an open mind. Know your stuff, share your ideas, but also be open to learning from others. That balance makes people respect you more.
And here’s a fun hack—building your personal brand helps a ton. If you’re in finance, sharing market insights or breaking down trends on LinkedIn can make people take notice. If you’re in engineering, talking about new tech, posting about cool projects, or even just sharing what you’re learning can help build credibility.
Dr H
At the end of the day, great communication isn’t about being the loudest in the room—it’s about making people feel like talking to you is actually worth their time. Keep things natural, stay curious, and have fun with it.
Dr H
One last thing Arihant before I end. 🤔 The core communication skills—like being informed, asking great questions, and building real connections—apply to both finance and engineering. But the way you approach it can be different depending on the field.
Dr H
In finance, communication is everything. It’s fast-paced, competitive, and heavily relationship-driven. You need to be able to pitch ideas, break down complex market trends in a way that makes sense, and, most importantly, build trust. A lot of finance success comes from networking—whether it’s with colleagues, clients, or investors—so being articulate, persuasive, and confident in your delivery is key. Small talk and social skills matter a lot here too. It’s not just about what you know; it’s about how well you sell it.
Dr H
In engineering, communication is more about precision and clarity. You’re often explaining technical concepts to people who may not have the same expertise—whether it’s a manager, client, or another department. Engineers who can simplify complex ideas without losing accuracy stand out big time. Collaboration is also huge since projects usually involve cross-functional teams. Being able to write clear reports, document findings, and present solutions effectively can set you apart. While networking isn’t as aggressive as in finance, making connections with the right people—professors, mentors, industry leaders—can still open up a lot of doors.
Dr H
So while both fields need strong communication, finance leans more toward persuasion and relationship-building, while engineering focuses on clarity, problem-solving, and technical explanation. Either way, mastering how you communicate gives you a serious edge! 🚀
Dr H
If you have any questions you can read out to me. Regarding any parts i can help you.
Fanna Suzan
Rebecca Tang
Banking
2036
Answers
Hong Kong
Updated
Rebecca’s Answer
Thank you for your question. I am glad to hear that you have interest in both finance and engineering. Firstly, you need to find out what careers you have interest.
Below are my suggestions:
1. There are many careers related to finance and engineering, eg electrical & electronics engineer, mechanical engineer, civil engineer, financial analyst, financial advisor, investment banker, corporate banker, etc. You can find out related careers online.
2. Find out more on these careers and determine what you have interest
3. Speak to someone who are working in these careers. Seek guidance from your mentor, school career counselor, your parents, etc
4. Shortlist 1-2 careers you would like to pursue. If the career involves both subjects, you can consider taking one as major and another one as minor. Alternatively, you can consider to take double major.
5. Explore the entry criteria of relevant subjects in colleges
Hope this helps! Good luck!
May Almighty God bless you!
Below are my suggestions:
1. There are many careers related to finance and engineering, eg electrical & electronics engineer, mechanical engineer, civil engineer, financial analyst, financial advisor, investment banker, corporate banker, etc. You can find out related careers online.
2. Find out more on these careers and determine what you have interest
3. Speak to someone who are working in these careers. Seek guidance from your mentor, school career counselor, your parents, etc
4. Shortlist 1-2 careers you would like to pursue. If the career involves both subjects, you can consider taking one as major and another one as minor. Alternatively, you can consider to take double major.
5. Explore the entry criteria of relevant subjects in colleges
Hope this helps! Good luck!
May Almighty God bless you!
Sir Flyer
Design, Entertainment and sport coaching
18
Answers
Zürich, Switzerland
Updated
Sir’s Answer
Dr. H provided a strong breakdown—engineering offers stable, high salaries, while finance has a higher earning ceiling but demands aggressive networking, risk tolerance, and long-term commitment. If pure wealth is your only metric, finance has greater upside. However, engineering provides a more predictable, skill-based path to financial success, especially in high-demand fields like AI, software, petroleum, and semiconductors.
Final advice: Wealth follows expertise and strategic positioning. The top earners in any field are not just participants—they are the best at what they do. Choose the path where you can develop a competitive edge and commit to mastery.
Final advice: Wealth follows expertise and strategic positioning. The top earners in any field are not just participants—they are the best at what they do. Choose the path where you can develop a competitive edge and commit to mastery.
I am really grateful you took the time to answer this question.
Arihant
Rick Kneisley
Retired Investment Broker and Investment Sales Manager
12
Answers
Georgetown, Texas
Updated
Rick’s Answer
Arihant,
Both Dr's answer and Sir's answer are excellent responses to the facts of the issue. That leaves me to discuss the intangibles of your quandary. I'll do that by sharing my own similar uncertainty when I started my freshman year at Purdue University. It was basically an engineering school back then, so I chose engineering as my major. That lasted about six weeks. It was not my world. Math calculations, the use of scientific principles. I was a fish out of water.
I eventually got a degree in economics and was recruited to be a stockbroker. Got to spend three months learning those skills and acquiring the necessary SEC licenses in New York on Wall Street. I loved that experience. Going on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, with all its history. The sights and sounds of that area of New York. Awesome.
Long story short, it was work I loved. And primarily back then people had to go to a stockbroker to start building their wealth. No online self-directed brokerage accounts were available back then. And the best part for me was the face-to-face contact with clients. I discovered I was a people person who needed to do work that required me to help others directly, and for them for many years into the feature.
So, my conclusion for you is to find out what kind of work were you built to do. Is it siting at a desk all day and dealing mostly with coworkers? Ask yourself if you are the analytical type or more intuitive. Do you prefer to be out there working with people, hearing their agendas on an ongoing basis?
Now, under the umbrella of finance I can share with you some of the kinds of people-person jobs that are available.
Investment Banker:
In this job people come to you because they have started a new business, are successful, and want to raise capital by doing an IPO. That's an Initial Public Offering. Putting a public stock offering together, underwriting it, and basically offering those shares of stock to the general public.
This job can be very prosperous for you. Always dealing with different successful people and getting in on the ground floor of the new investment personally. The rules for that are very tight, and there are restrictions, but it can be done. The chance to make money, which is your goal, is certainly attainable.
Bank Investment Representative:
You would be a licensed broker helping bank customers with annuities, mutual funds and individual stock investments. It's a commissioned position so if you are a people person this could be a good option. There are others but you now have the heart of it.
However, I can assure you that the true road for you to make money, and any other young person, is to open an online self-directed brokerage account and start depositing money into it on a regular basis. This will be a lifelong account. You can start with $25.00. Then make a habit of putting additional money in every paycheck. While that grows start doing online research looking for growth areas and then begin investing,
Here are several examples of how it can work:
$1,000.00 invested in Apple in 2002 is now worth $712,702.00
$1,000.00 invested in Amazon in 1996 is now worth $1,870,000.00
I could go on and list more like this. The point is our free enterprise system makes these opportunities available to all of us. It just requires the discipline of saving and then investing. And to invest successfully do the online research to find these opportunities. And to succeed don't sell ever unless the companies themselves have faltered. Remember, be in it for the long term.
Now I'm going to attach an article I wrote on Investing. I think you'll find it interesting.
INVESTING
To begin, there are many thousands of individual stocks and bonds. No new investor should start there. Here is what I recommend: start with a Mutual Fund and/or an Electronically Traded Fund. (ETF)
Here is what they are and why they’re best for new investors:
Think of each as offering a variety of baskets. Within those baskets are multiple stocks and/or bonds, all chosen and managed by the financial experts the fund has hired to do so.
You, as an investor, purchase shares in those products and become an equity shareholder entitled to all the benefits. Those experts take the guesswork out of the buying process.
But there is a difference between them. With mutual funds investment shares are held by the fund itself. And selling can only occur after the markets have closed for the day. Franklin Funds and Fidelity Funds are very reputable but there are many more.
But with an ETF, which is also managed by experts the fund has employed, the shares are held in your self-directed brokerage account and can be bought and sold by you anytime the markets are open--weekdays from 9:30am to 4:00 pm East Coast time and ETF shares can be bought and sold anytime during those hours. Of course, the markets are closed on a holiday if it falls during the week.
And, if you’re under the age of 18 and wish to have a brokerage account, simply have a parent or grandparent serve as custodian on the account. It’s in your name as owner, with the custodian making it legal. At 18 the custodian falls off and you take complete control and ownership of the account.
Now, there are all kinds of baskets, like a growth fund, a growth and income fund, a high technology fund, a tax free municipal bond fund, etc. Sounds complicated. Doesn’t have to be if you take it slowly and get used to your self-directed account and its fluctuations as the markets fluctuate.
Ok, now, where to start. Here is my recommendation based upon my 50+ years of experience. Every new investor should start with areas of our economy where exponential growth is occurring.
For example, in1980 IBM came out with the personal computer for home use. They hired Bill Gates to provide the software operating system.
He kept control of his product and started Microsoft and Steven Jobs started Apple. Both are Trillion dollar companies today.
Of course, there was and continues to be, an explosion of growth in the computer area. The Cloud is an expanding area. Artificial Intelligence is also exploding now.
Let’s get a concise definition of that new area from ChatGPT.
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is the field of computer science focused on creating systems capable of performing tasks that typically require human intelligence. These tasks include learning, reasoning, problem-solving, understanding natural language, and perceiving the environment. AI can range from simple automation to advanced machine learning and neural networks that enable machines to improve their performance over time.
Wow. Sounds like the future and a great area for growth.
Quantum Computing is another explosive, and soon to be a high-growth area.
Quantum computing is a type of computing that leverages the principles of quantum mechanics to perform calculations. Unlike classical computers, which use bits as the smallest unit of data (representing 0 or 1), quantum computers use quantum bits, or qubits, which can represent 0, 1, or both simultaneously due to superposition. This enables quantum computers to process complex problems much faster than classical computers by performing many calculations in parallel. Quantum entanglement and superposition are key features that give quantum computing its potential to solve certain problems more efficiently than classical computers.
Now I’m going to give you my opinion. But it’s just my opinion. You should make up your own mind.
Remember, the purpose of this information is to share truths that can lead to greater prosperity and abundance. But there are risks and they can be mitigated for new investors by investing for the long term and using a fund company, Mutual or ETF, that constantly monitors each investment in their baskets (funds) that are being offered.
There is also risk tolerance, which refers primarily to one’s age. That means the older you are the less risk you want in your investments as preservation of capital becomes the primary goal.
If you’re young to middle age and just starting out, you might consider focusing fully on a high technology fund. If you’re retired maybe just 10% of investable funds, or not at all.
So, there's my 2 cents worth of advice. It's obvious you have the drive, Arihant, to succussed, so I'm sure you will.
Best regards my friend,
Rick
Both Dr's answer and Sir's answer are excellent responses to the facts of the issue. That leaves me to discuss the intangibles of your quandary. I'll do that by sharing my own similar uncertainty when I started my freshman year at Purdue University. It was basically an engineering school back then, so I chose engineering as my major. That lasted about six weeks. It was not my world. Math calculations, the use of scientific principles. I was a fish out of water.
I eventually got a degree in economics and was recruited to be a stockbroker. Got to spend three months learning those skills and acquiring the necessary SEC licenses in New York on Wall Street. I loved that experience. Going on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, with all its history. The sights and sounds of that area of New York. Awesome.
Long story short, it was work I loved. And primarily back then people had to go to a stockbroker to start building their wealth. No online self-directed brokerage accounts were available back then. And the best part for me was the face-to-face contact with clients. I discovered I was a people person who needed to do work that required me to help others directly, and for them for many years into the feature.
So, my conclusion for you is to find out what kind of work were you built to do. Is it siting at a desk all day and dealing mostly with coworkers? Ask yourself if you are the analytical type or more intuitive. Do you prefer to be out there working with people, hearing their agendas on an ongoing basis?
Now, under the umbrella of finance I can share with you some of the kinds of people-person jobs that are available.
Investment Banker:
In this job people come to you because they have started a new business, are successful, and want to raise capital by doing an IPO. That's an Initial Public Offering. Putting a public stock offering together, underwriting it, and basically offering those shares of stock to the general public.
This job can be very prosperous for you. Always dealing with different successful people and getting in on the ground floor of the new investment personally. The rules for that are very tight, and there are restrictions, but it can be done. The chance to make money, which is your goal, is certainly attainable.
Bank Investment Representative:
You would be a licensed broker helping bank customers with annuities, mutual funds and individual stock investments. It's a commissioned position so if you are a people person this could be a good option. There are others but you now have the heart of it.
However, I can assure you that the true road for you to make money, and any other young person, is to open an online self-directed brokerage account and start depositing money into it on a regular basis. This will be a lifelong account. You can start with $25.00. Then make a habit of putting additional money in every paycheck. While that grows start doing online research looking for growth areas and then begin investing,
Here are several examples of how it can work:
$1,000.00 invested in Apple in 2002 is now worth $712,702.00
$1,000.00 invested in Amazon in 1996 is now worth $1,870,000.00
I could go on and list more like this. The point is our free enterprise system makes these opportunities available to all of us. It just requires the discipline of saving and then investing. And to invest successfully do the online research to find these opportunities. And to succeed don't sell ever unless the companies themselves have faltered. Remember, be in it for the long term.
Now I'm going to attach an article I wrote on Investing. I think you'll find it interesting.
INVESTING
To begin, there are many thousands of individual stocks and bonds. No new investor should start there. Here is what I recommend: start with a Mutual Fund and/or an Electronically Traded Fund. (ETF)
Here is what they are and why they’re best for new investors:
Think of each as offering a variety of baskets. Within those baskets are multiple stocks and/or bonds, all chosen and managed by the financial experts the fund has hired to do so.
You, as an investor, purchase shares in those products and become an equity shareholder entitled to all the benefits. Those experts take the guesswork out of the buying process.
But there is a difference between them. With mutual funds investment shares are held by the fund itself. And selling can only occur after the markets have closed for the day. Franklin Funds and Fidelity Funds are very reputable but there are many more.
But with an ETF, which is also managed by experts the fund has employed, the shares are held in your self-directed brokerage account and can be bought and sold by you anytime the markets are open--weekdays from 9:30am to 4:00 pm East Coast time and ETF shares can be bought and sold anytime during those hours. Of course, the markets are closed on a holiday if it falls during the week.
And, if you’re under the age of 18 and wish to have a brokerage account, simply have a parent or grandparent serve as custodian on the account. It’s in your name as owner, with the custodian making it legal. At 18 the custodian falls off and you take complete control and ownership of the account.
Now, there are all kinds of baskets, like a growth fund, a growth and income fund, a high technology fund, a tax free municipal bond fund, etc. Sounds complicated. Doesn’t have to be if you take it slowly and get used to your self-directed account and its fluctuations as the markets fluctuate.
Ok, now, where to start. Here is my recommendation based upon my 50+ years of experience. Every new investor should start with areas of our economy where exponential growth is occurring.
For example, in1980 IBM came out with the personal computer for home use. They hired Bill Gates to provide the software operating system.
He kept control of his product and started Microsoft and Steven Jobs started Apple. Both are Trillion dollar companies today.
Of course, there was and continues to be, an explosion of growth in the computer area. The Cloud is an expanding area. Artificial Intelligence is also exploding now.
Let’s get a concise definition of that new area from ChatGPT.
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is the field of computer science focused on creating systems capable of performing tasks that typically require human intelligence. These tasks include learning, reasoning, problem-solving, understanding natural language, and perceiving the environment. AI can range from simple automation to advanced machine learning and neural networks that enable machines to improve their performance over time.
Wow. Sounds like the future and a great area for growth.
Quantum Computing is another explosive, and soon to be a high-growth area.
Quantum computing is a type of computing that leverages the principles of quantum mechanics to perform calculations. Unlike classical computers, which use bits as the smallest unit of data (representing 0 or 1), quantum computers use quantum bits, or qubits, which can represent 0, 1, or both simultaneously due to superposition. This enables quantum computers to process complex problems much faster than classical computers by performing many calculations in parallel. Quantum entanglement and superposition are key features that give quantum computing its potential to solve certain problems more efficiently than classical computers.
Now I’m going to give you my opinion. But it’s just my opinion. You should make up your own mind.
Remember, the purpose of this information is to share truths that can lead to greater prosperity and abundance. But there are risks and they can be mitigated for new investors by investing for the long term and using a fund company, Mutual or ETF, that constantly monitors each investment in their baskets (funds) that are being offered.
There is also risk tolerance, which refers primarily to one’s age. That means the older you are the less risk you want in your investments as preservation of capital becomes the primary goal.
If you’re young to middle age and just starting out, you might consider focusing fully on a high technology fund. If you’re retired maybe just 10% of investable funds, or not at all.
So, there's my 2 cents worth of advice. It's obvious you have the drive, Arihant, to succussed, so I'm sure you will.
Best regards my friend,
Rick
Arihant,
During the 20th century, stocks appreciated in value by 1,500,000%.
A 1,500,000% return turns every $100 invested into $1.5 million.
Of course, the 20th century was fraught with its own turbulence. The Great Depression… World War I and World War II… the Korean War… the Cuban Missile Crisis… the Watergate scandal… the list goes on.
But staying in long term works!
So now you have the keys to building great wealth. Get started as soon as you can.
Rick
Rick Kneisley
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